it was against, for instance, the civil rights act of 1964, when you got somebody like jesse helms, who was a democrat, a racist democrat, was so upset with the idea of racial inclusion, that he left the democratic party and became a republic tan. and that has been happening. so southern democrats have and 8,000 fundamentalist baptist churches and so on have taken over the republican party and fundamentally changed it. >> one of the things that's interesting. gender is a key element to that backlash. >> well, it's the whole game. because you have to control -- we don't talk about it. but controlling reproduction is even more important than controlling production. and you can't control reproduction unless you control women. so you get the same groups being against contraception, against abortion, which prevents abortion, which means no sense. you get especially racist groups being against reproductive rights because they can see that the country is becoming a no longer majority-like country and they're in a panic about this. these -- women are not -- women are part of everything. and fun